Especially in light of Romans 14:1-6 where Paul instructs Christians to not judge each other over the observance of such days. I don't have my WT Library with me right now, but I'm pretty sure their take on both Galatians and Romans is that Paul was referring to the Jewish holidays and those couldn't be objectionable since they were given by God. However, I concede that perhaps Galatians could be referring to other festivals. However, doesn't that cut against the JW argument that anyone who celebrates their birthday for example, should be removed from the congregation? I've studied the Bible a fair amount and I have never found a scripture that supports that stance. By the way, if the JWs are not 100% correct, then they don't have the truth. I haven't found any religion that I can honestly say is 100% in accordance with the Bible.
Doubting Bro
JoinedPosts by Doubting Bro
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407
Is it the JW's or the God of the bible you no longer believe?
by reniaa ini have a question for the ex-jw's on this forum after months of reading the forum..... many say how good it is to be free of the oppressiveness of the jw's that they can now enjoy the freedom to... have sex, celebrate christmas, gamble, embrace politics etc.
there are still biblical scriptures and principles in place that if you still followed the bible would mean you avoid these things and yet these are now embraced as one of the perks of no longer being a jw so in my confusion i ask.... if these are what you want, isn't it more correct to say you no longer follow the bible as apposed to just the jw's?.
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Billy's Comments You Might Hear at the 10-12-08 WT Study (MAINTAIN LOYALTY)
by Billy the Ex-Bethelite incomments you will not hear at the 10-12-08 wt study - august 15, 2008, pages 7-11 (maintain loyalty).
review comments will be in red.
wt material from today's wt will be in black.
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Doubting Bro
For a religion that loves to misapply scriptures to fit their agenda (ok, most do that but the WTS is especially good at it), this "lesson" really takes the cake. How anyone could read that account and say the moral of the story was to not materialistic is beyond me. It really makes me wonder if the writing committee even reads the Bible. Good comments all, I really don't have much to add other than to wonder if the writing department has an unhappy camper who slipped one through. The parallels between the false religion set up in BETHEL,gold calf=organization worship and the old prophet claiming to speak for God yet causing bad things to happen to folks who follow his advice is remarkable.
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Notes from Annual Meeting, October 2008
by FadingAway injust got in email a few minutes ago...... note, there are three different sets of notes, they may seem repetitive but please read all three as some notes may have left out things where other notes added other points......... .
annual report .
the holy spirit is just jumping off of me!
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Doubting Bro
First - thanks for posting this FadingAway!
I guess they've decided to not break out any other doctrinal changes. I'm not suprised since there were so many over the past 2 years that they need to take a break for a little bit. Now, it seems the focus is on the structural changes with the CBS being eliminated, PO title changed and the rumored (and I believe true) demise of the COs as we know them. I wonder what other structural changes will happen this upcoming year?
Does anyone give a crap about Wayan? I'm sure he's a nice guy and all, but the name dropping is a bit much. I didn't know he is "annointed". I wonder how long?
True anointed ones listen to the congregation as Paul and Barnabas did. Paul spent 3 years in the Arabian desert and was directly appointed by Christ, yet he never usurped the governing body's and their decisions, he always respectfully asked their decision and direction on things. 1 Cor 12:14-18
Right, that's why the Bible is full of times where Paul and Barnabas confer with the "GB" in Jerusalem? Oh, wait a minute, the only time that was the case was when the Jerusalem congregation was sending folks down to Antioch to stir up trouble with the Gentiles and force them to get circumcised. And, Paul didn't go up to ask for advice, he went up to tell them they were WRONG. By the way, you would think that the scripture cited would be an example of Paul humbly asking the 1 century governing body (the one that didn't really exist) for direction. WRONG - here's the quote from the NIV
14 Now the body is not made up of one part but of many. 15 If the foot should say, "Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. 16 And if the ear should say, "Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason cease to be part of the body. 17 If the whole body were an eye, where would the sense of hearing be? If the whole body were an ear, where would the sense of smell be? 18 But in fact God has arranged the parts in the body, every one of them, just as he wanted them to be.
The actual context is referring to gifts that every member of the congreation could bring to the table. Nothing about getting direction from a specially appointed group. It was about working together for the common good and not diminishing the others contribution.
Also, that "true annointed ones" comment continues the double talk. On the one hand, they say that the door didn't really close in 1935. On the other, they try to say that there are only a few left and that the big A is right around the corner. Which is it guys? Oh, that's right, you don't have a clue.
Sir82 - There must have been a butt-load of new partakers at the Memorial this year. In 2007, the number rose to over 10,000. How many were there in 2008? 15,000? 20,000? more? Must have been a startling increase for them to come out so strongly on this.
I totally agree with you. My bet is that it's probably at least a 10% increase.
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Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 10-05-08 WT Study (LOYAL LEAVE)
by blondie inquote.
quote.
quote.
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Doubting Bro
I heard more cultish comments at this "study" than I have in a long time. It was insane. The conductor went over so everyone could have a chance to verbalize their lover for the "slave". Good comments above - paragraph 15 was of course the highlight. The best was when the conductor made the statement that last weeks study didn't change any truth, but refined it. Refined? Taking a 180 degree change on an explanation is not refinement it's change.
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JWs come for a visit! I can't believe it.
by dawg ini just wanted to relate that this weekend, a group of jws came by and visited me-they had come to athens to watch the big game that my team didn't show up for.
most of them knew that i had written letters to many family members and friends saying the jws were full of crocodile crap and yet all of them hung out with me.
one was inquisitive in a good way, asking me if i was an 'apostate"... i told him that i was because i've formerly stated that i disagree with the jws about many of their doctrines.
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Doubting Bro
dawg - That's pretty awesome. It is a little surprising that they would seek you out given your pretty clear stand. I sometimes think its one thing to make a "mistake" according to WTS rules and be df'ed but to clearly say you don't believe what they teach is something far worse in a believing JWs mind. I agree with you that there are quite a few JWs who are JWs in name only and likely don't really believe. That's why they will never drop the shunning because if they did that, there would be no ramifications to leaving. PS - the Bulldogs just puzzle me because I just can't see the Tide as being THAT much better. Oh well, another crazy year in college football!
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Blondie's Comments You Will Not Hear at the 09-28-08 WT Study (SUCCESS)
by blondie in*** km 3/06 p. 1 par.
(mark 4:26-29) let us now consider three more of jesus' illustrations-the mustard grain, the leaven, and the dragnet.
when the wts says "god's people" do they mean anyone other than jws?.
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Doubting Bro
Billy - You are hilarious!! If you're not a comedy writer, you've missed your calling!
Bluesbrother - I think you've hit all the changes. What amazes me is the 180 degree change in some of these.
The mustard plant changing from all organizations that took on the mantel of Christian and were apostate to just JWs who are the true religion is pretty big. It seems there are two basic schools of thought on this illustration. Of course, since the WTS loves to change things, they have simply moved from one school to another. The old position was in the school that the mustard plant represented the growth of problems within the Christian church as represented by birds (agents of Satan per the illustration in Matt 13 where they eat the seed sown by the roadside) getting shelter there. The new position is in agreement for the most part with the commentators that say the mustard plant signifies the growth of Christianity from 1 person to a major world religion. The only difference is the WTS twist that the plant represents just the WTS. Of course, everything is always about them, so no shock there. What I read said that this plant signifies the outside growth of the Christian religion (numbers of converts).
The leaven is also not a unique WTS teaching and I found there are basically two schools of thought on that illustration from bible commentators.By the way, this apparently was a very long held view and may be one of the only things the WTS hasn't changed its position on, until now. The old WTS teaching that leaven was bad is not unique from what I saw in my brief search and is thought by some to represent evil in the church. The new WTS teaching is in line with some bible commentators only, of course, a WTS twist. Seems, an equal number of folks I read think the leaven represents the teachings of Jesus taking root in an individual Christian's life and "making that person over". Like a small amount of fermented dough can ferment the whole lump. Seems to make sense to me. Yet, the WTS twist is that while it represents "spiritual growth" this is evidenced by outside growth. That is different from the standard interpertation that this illustration represents spiritual growth of an individual. By the way, our conductor allowed a major deviation in the discussion where many took the standard interpertation and ran with it. He even agreed and by his wording actually disagreed with the WTS interpertation (not sure if he realizes he did that or not).
Finally, we come to the dragnet. Again, another 180 degree change. This one is unique to the WTS. It really doesn't make any sense at all. First, anyone that has used a drag net knows that you capture EVERYTHING in the area of the net. Fish aren't attracted to the stupid thing. Its not the same a bait technique where you entice the fish to strike at a lure. Also, its a one time thing. Either your a good fish or a bad fish. You are either kept or destroyed. They make it sound like you can change from a good fish to a bad fish or vice versa. I still have trouble understanding how the WTS explains this. Seems most of those commenting nor the conductor explained it very well and basically rushed through that part.
I actually read the whole book of Matthew this weekend to look specifically at the illustrations. In my uneducated opinion, it seems that Jesus basically was sending the same message to his apostles by telling them many different illustrations. There would be a contrast between his followers and those who didn't follow him. The faithful/evil slave, the worker in the field (one chosen one not), the sheep and goats, the wheat and weeds, the good fish and bad fish. Seems to me they are all talking about the same thing. To try to make these items all mean different things simply doesn't make sense. Yet, when you're trying to retrofit a failed theology - you have to make leaps of logic.
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Washington Mutual just failed. Meh.
by LDH ini better not see people who can't make payments on time getting to keep their homes.
i have a friend who is 67. she has an arm.
her payment dropped by $20 in august.
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Doubting Bro
Which is why the government should allow these businesses to fail. Chase probably ended up with a decent deal. The BOD of WaMu certainly will be sued for negligence and whoever wrote their Directors & Officers insurance coverage (AIG was/is a large writer of that type of insurance) will likely pay policy limits which will not even to begin to make up the loss for the investors. Treason? Not sure I follow that.I think the treason is actually being committed by the elected officials in Washington on both sides of the aisle especially if the bailout package in its current form is passed.
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Is this normal?!
by Lo ini'm one of those ones who drifted away before getting to heavily in...thank god...but upon arrival in my new house i found a letter, a hand written letter in my letterbox from a local witness saying they had called around a few times and no one had been in, had a special message etc etc and gave an address which is a kingdom hall should the residents wish to contact her.
is it usual to write such a long hand written letter??
i think it's a bit strange.
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Doubting Bro
Just some pioneer or perhaps elderly publisher trying to get their time in. If you hand write it instead of typing it, you can draw the letter out to an hour. Recycle it!
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Wrecking of United States of America
by BurnTheShips ini am almost shaking as i write this for what is happening to the capital markets, this country, and the free world.
the impact of the past two weeks' action in the financial markets, if not reversed by cooler heads, will have irreparably changed the world in a way that only terrorist attacks and acts of war have in the past.. .
nationalizing fannie mae and freddie mac, providing an emergency quasi-legal bridge loan to aig, temporarily banning short-selling on all stocks in the us, and instituting an rtc-type entity to handle the toxic waste of the financial system is economic violence on a grand scale.. .
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Doubting Bro
"Libertarians are real loons... what we need is party that's pragmatic." Not sure which of their policies are particularly loony but I do agree that it would be impossible to implement their platform as stated in the near term. Things like abolishing Social Security (which I'm in my late-30s and realize that I'll NEVER collect)and legalizing drugs (I understand their argument but think the social consequences will be worse than they think) are probably not very pragmatic. Also, allowing free market education could perhaps be a long term goal but unlikely to get by the powerful teachers unions and retirement pension funds. Plus, I do think the government needs to ensure that there is a good fundamental educational base since that is necessary for a well adjusted society. But, I think they have some really good ideas about ending welfare (both domestically and especially welfare provided to foreign countries as well as industries who get subsidies) and certainly good ideas about protecting individual freedoms. Actually, if you could pick and choose policies from the big 2 and some of the smaller parties, that would be the best. But, no way that happens. Oh, how about term limits? 1 term, no re-election so only people who actually want to fix things serve instead of the life long blood suckers who reside in DC. I certainly wouldn't hire any of those bozos to work for me. They wouldn't know any honest days work if it bit them in the rear end.
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Wrecking of United States of America
by BurnTheShips ini am almost shaking as i write this for what is happening to the capital markets, this country, and the free world.
the impact of the past two weeks' action in the financial markets, if not reversed by cooler heads, will have irreparably changed the world in a way that only terrorist attacks and acts of war have in the past.. .
nationalizing fannie mae and freddie mac, providing an emergency quasi-legal bridge loan to aig, temporarily banning short-selling on all stocks in the us, and instituting an rtc-type entity to handle the toxic waste of the financial system is economic violence on a grand scale.. .
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Doubting Bro
Dawg - I do agree that too much power concentrated in the hands of any party is bad. In my opinion, the problem isn't necessarily with the Republicans or Democrats. Its with the fact that those are the only two viable choices we have. Really, what we need to have a few more political parties to emerge with enough power to force the other parties actually work instead of sucking the country dry. The Dems have controlled Congress for the last 2 years yet haven't accomplished much. My personal view is that they want the economy to be bad so that they have a better chance of winning in November. Cynical I know, but it seems to me that a politicians number 1 job is to get elected and then once elected, the job is to get re-elected. We need greater accountability in the political process and our current 2 party system just doesn't cut it. I do agree with some of the traditional Republican views of less government interference in the average persons affairs, smaller government, lower taxes. I just don't think the Republican party agrees with those views. However, the Democratic proposals seem to me to expand government even further so I don't agree with them either. I really don't agree with the Republican president circumventing the constitution, yet Congress let him do it so they are equally to blame. Obama doesn't have the necessary experience in my opinion and I think his economic policies will only push us further into debt. And with the same party controlling Congress, there will be an open checkbook. On the other hand, McCain may have been a maverick at one point, but he's a bought man now. And, he's old which means the VP position has a good chance of taking over. Palin has even less experience than Obama. And while I really try hard not to put a religious test on politicians, her extreme fundamentalist views concern me quite a bit. Actually, she scare the hell out of me. I thought about Barr (Libertarian candidate) but the media has made it almost impossible for them to even enter the discussion. I agree with many of their ideas, but think they're a little naive in thinking they can gut the federal government quickly. Sorry for my ramble, I'm just annoyed at the corruption and incompetence I see. We need change, but its got to be more drastic and just moving from Red to Blue.